Which CSC?

[stillshunter]

Thanks BB.

I'm hoping once the zoom complement to the X100 is in hand I can stop wasting time researching and get out there and shoot! It's pretty annoying actually.....I don't like the Hungry Beast that's manifest when me, a 'need' for kit, the money to buy it, and the internet, all converge.

 

[stratokaster]

Mark,

right now I'm in the same situation. I've just sold my Panasonic G2, the Sony R1 (as for now) is permanently fixed in a product photography setup in my office, and the only camera I'm left with is the Samsung EX1. I have money to buy Panasonic GH2 or Sony NEX-7 and this money is almost burning my pocket. Those cameras are remarkably similar in their capabilities, but of course the NEX-7 is so much more attractive (I mean, physically). But I don't like NEX lens choices and it will not be available until December.

Or maybe I should just give in to the full-frame lust and buy Canon 5D Mark II.

 

[stillshunter]

Mark,

right now I'm in the same situation. I've just sold my Panasonic G2, the Sony R1 (as for now) is permanently fixed in a product photography setup in my office, and the only camera I'm left with is the Samsung EX1. I have money to buy Panasonic GH2 or Sony NEX-7 and this money is almost burning my pocket. Those cameras are remarkably similar in their capabilities, but of course the NEX-7 is so much more attractive (I mean, physically). But I don't like NEX lens choices and it will not be available until December.

Or maybe I should just give in to the full-frame lust and buy Canon 5D Mark II.

Pavel,

I hear you loud and clear brother!

I know many folks who'd not share their sympathies - I mean having money to burn and burdened by choice But I'm far from rich and spending this money on a camera/body is a matter that I (we) need to get right. Never lost much on lenses, but cameras and/or bodies seem to plummet minutes after parting with your money. Still struggling to sell my current model Pentax for almost half of what I paid for it only a few months ago

So, mate, I hope we both get it right. Good to hear your sales went well and you've narrowed your field down to two. Though the fact that you're not enticed by the G3 has me concerned ...oh jeez not again! Seriously though, agree with you 100% on the Sony glass, it seems a pretty dismal offering, though I suppose most would buy with legacy/off-brand glass in mind. Also I assume you still have some u4/3 glass to mount out front if you go down the GH2 road?

Full-frame? Hmmm.....tempting but seriously uncompact

 

[stratokaster]

Still struggling to sell my current model Pentax for almost half of what I paid for it only a few months ago

Mark, I feel your pain! In the end I sold the G2 for a ridiculously low price. Like 1/3 of what I paid for it when it was new.

Also I assume you still have some u4/3 glass to mount out front if you go down the GH2 road?

Yes, I still have the Panasonic 20mm pancake (a great, great lens) and Olympus 9-18mm wide-angle zoom. As of now, it's impossible to replace both lenses with native NEX glass.

Full-frame? Hmmm.....tempting but seriously uncompact

It was a joke In fact, I'm so used to CSCs, I find DSLRs seriously retarded. No EVF, no full time live view, no usable AF in the live view, no face detection... It's almost like shooting film, but without that unique 'film look'

 

[Luckypenguin]

The camera that always seems to get ignored when looking at DSLR-styled m4/3 cams is the GH1. It has a completely different sensor to the G1 and G2 with less high ISO noise if that's your thing; multi-aspect sensor so you can shoot at 4:3, 3:2, and 16:9 without reducing the sensor diagonal; and has less handling and functional compromises than the new G3. The only real naff points for me are the inability to assign the video button to anything other than video, and the front mounted control wheel. The last one is based on the assumption that I would prefer the rear mounted wheel, but I haven't tried one so I can't be sure. I think the GH1 gets pigeon-holed as a video machine, but in my experience I can't even confirm if the video works because I haven't used it yet. Not long ago in the US, Panasonic was clearing out the remaining GH1 bodies for US$299. No such luck in Australia though; I saw a used one sell the other night for AU$440 on eBay.

 

[stillshunter]

The camera that always seems to get ignored when looking at DSLR-styled m4/3 cams is the GH1. It has a completely different sensor to the G1 and G2 with less high ISO noise if that's your thing; multi-aspect sensor so you can shoot at 4:3, 3:2, and 16:9 without reducing the sensor diagonal; and has less handling and functional compromises than the new G3. The only real naff points for me are the inability to assign the video button to anything other than video, and the front mounted control wheel. The last one is based on the assumption that I would prefer the rear mounted wheel, but I haven't tried one so I can't be sure. I think the GH1 gets pigeon-holed as a video machine, but in my experience I can't even confirm if the video works because I haven't used it yet. Not long ago in the US, Panasonic was clearing out the remaining GH1 bodies for US$299. No such luck in Australia though; I saw a used one sell the other night for AU$440 on eBay.

Mate the specs don't look too shabby at all, esp. from a features perspective. DxO appeared to love it too!
A bit concerned about some aspects though, mainly:
1. Size - 124 x 90 x 45* mm (4.88 x 3.54 x 1.77*"). That makes it closer in size to the Pentax K-r @ 125 x 97 x 68 mm (4.92 x 3.82 x 2.68") than the G3 @ 115 x 84 x 47 mm (4.53 x 3.31 x 1.85").
* - I think the bolded thickness measurement is wrong as it's almost double elsewhere to dpreview. Other sites have the GH1 measurements as 124 x 90 x 76 mm. Making it very close to the K-r's dimensions.
2. EVF - GH1 @ 0.7x or G3 @ 1.4x
3. Are you sure about the sensor Nic? It's a 12MP much like the older Panny G-series...or is it a redesigned 12MP?
P.S. looking at the Dxo measurements I think it's a redesigned 12MP...sorry Nic, you were right mate!

But 1 & 2 are big ones for me....having said that a GH1 has just popped up on Aus eBay for less than AUD400...that's the starting bid though

 

[Luckypenguin]

Yep, it's definitely a different sensor. The standard Panny 12MP m4/3 sensor has a fixed 4:3 aspect. The GH1 sensor is a true multi-aspect sensor such that shooting at 3:2 (as I do) reduces the height of the image slightly but also increases the width so that you still utilise the full image circle of the lens. 4:3 is a full 12MP, 3:2 is about 11.5MP. The sensor performance is also different to the other 12MP models. See the review below:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

BTW, it's funny to read the complaints about the lack of lens selection - not a big issue now with m4/3.

In terms of absolute size, all Panasonic G and GH cameras are stuffed because of the height and rearward projection of the viewfinder. The G3 is actually a tiny camera...except of the viewfinder. To be honest, I wouldn't have been too upset if even the GH1 was a little larger. For my hands it could do with a bit more thickness and depth in the grip and a bit more space around the four-way buttons at the back.

I think the GH1 and G3 have the same size EVF, although the G3 may have a few more pixels. I get a bit confused on how viewfinder sizes are compared. I think you take the 0.7x and then multiply it by the sensor crop factor which is where you get the 1.4x. However it works, the viewfinder is big to look at. See half way down the page below:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 Review: 4. Body & Design: Digital Photography Review

I bought my GH1 earlier this year as a refurbed model from Panasonic Australia (via eBay) with the 14-140 lens for a bit over $800 IIRC. I ummed and ahhed at the time about spending so much cash on yet another camera, but it made me look at m4/3 as a "real" camera system rather than a fun, back-to-basics exercise as it was when I just had my E-P1 and mostly a bunch of manual focus lenses. It has prompted me to look at streamlining my Canon EOS gear and use the two systems as a compliment to each other since I don't want to give up either.

As a disclaimer, I have no practical experience with the G3 so I can't compare the two cameras, but based on the feedback from Pavel and the other guys at mu-43 I am happy to continue the GH1 at the price I paid for it.

 

[stillshunter]

Thanks for that Nic. Very , very informative.

I'm a little torn now...especially with a fresh BIN offer from the eBay seller of the GH1. But, no, I think I'll go with the smaller G3 (with a spare battery - as per Pavel's feedback)....it'll fit nicely beside the X100 in my little Domke. Teds has just gotten back to me with a price match on the G3 twin kit. I hate buying new, I absolutely hate it!!! But I suppose I'll have full warranty on it with a 14 day return policy if I change my mind.

So just the K-r body to be sold now and then the order is in...

 

[stratokaster]

Just ordered the GH2. It should arrive tomorrow.

 

[stillshunter]

Congrats Pavel!!!

I've had a bite on the Pentax K-r body overnight and someone even wants the ThinkTank bag I'm selling too (would have rather have swapped my Retrospective 10 for a smaller Retrospective 5....but it was always a very slim chance). So, looks like I'll be ordering the G3 kit this week (maybe today) and might just be in hand by the week's close.

Pavel with our getting the two Panny models only days apart, we should set ourselves a challenge of sorts? Something to reach our hands across the waters (Ukraine to Australia...now that's a long handshake my friend)....and warm our kit up to their serious compact life. I use the term 'challenge' loosely...more so something that gets us both out, shooting, and sharing similar experiences with folks curious about these two models.

Just an idea mate. We can give flesh it flesh and shape it a little more via PM if you like, and once we have the kit in hand then start a thread?

Alright, now I'm excited for us both....

Anyone else?

 

[stratokaster]

Mark, I'm all for it I hope the weather will be good during the upcoming week-end. It will be a great opportunity to get out and shoot!