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Sony Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1 - first impressions and low light shots
- Thread starter Ray Sachs
- Start date
Hikari
Veteran
- Location
- Maine, USA
Yup. Go to manual exposure and set the shutter speed to bulb, which comes right after 30sec.
Armanius
Bring Jack back!
- Location
- Houston, Texas
- Name
- Jack
Ray, I'm trying very hard to wait until the XPro2 and 23/1.4. But the X100S sure is looking good from all that I've seen and read. I exchanged a couple of messages with Mike Kobal about testing the X100S using CAF instead of SAF, and he too agreed that in all non-point and shoot Fuji X's, the CAF is faster, more accurate, and able to lock-on in darker and less contrasty situations. Similarly, AF was also better when using EVF over OVF. But according to Mike, no noticeable difference on the X100S. The RX1 sure looks good too! But it's a whole lot easier to resist an expensive camera that I can't afford right now! 
Will BH be sending you a tester X100S as well?
Will BH be sending you a tester X100S as well?
Ray Sachs
Legend
- Location
- Not too far from Philly
- Name
- you should be able to figure it out...
Ray, I'm trying very hard to wait until the XPro2 and 23/1.4. But the X100S sure is looking good from all that I've seen and read. I exchanged a couple of messages with Mike Kobal about testing the X100S using CAF instead of SAF, and he too agreed that in all non-point and shoot Fuji X's, the CAF is faster, more accurate, and able to lock-on in darker and less contrasty situations. Similarly, AF was also better when using EVF over OVF. But according to Mike, no noticeable difference on the X100S. The RX1 sure looks good too! But it's a whole lot easier to resist an expensive camera that I can't afford right now!
Yeah, they've said they will. And a Coolpix A. I think the X100s is gonna rock. I just don't see it doing anything much for me at this point. Its only advantage over the X-Pro is the faster AF and the silent shutter. And if I was looking for another street camera, that might be appealing to me. But I've GOT some great street cameras and I never liked the X100 much as a street camera anyway - wrong focal length for me, I don't like shooting on the street with a viewfinder much, etc, etc, etc. And when I'm zone focussing with the X-Pro or the GXR, or even the OMD, the AF speed obviously isn't an issue. I'm actually finding that up to about portrait length and longer lenses, fast AF really isn't an issue to me, almost ever. Which is why I just sold off a bunch of m43 gear in the mid-wide lens range and my second body. So I don't see much in the X100s for me, even though it looks like a hell of an improvement over the original X100. If the Coolpix A can come close to matching the shooting experience of the GXR and the sensor is significantly better, and it fits in a pocket, I might end up with that as a sort of perfect little street camera. But the GXR is gonna be damn hard to beat because its interface is sooooo good. Which still brings me back to the RX1 - I'm loving it at this point. I might not love it after a month. But if I do, unless the X100s really surprises me in some ways I don't expect (redundant enough?), I think I'm much more likely to buy an RX1. Because it does something nothing else I own does. And which doesn't play to my existing strengths but might encourage me to branch out a bit more in the kind of shooting I do. I think I'm at the point of having such nice gear across the board that I'm looking more at specialty upgrades at this point, not system upgrades. Fuji and m43 have their roles pretty well established and they're both incredibly good for what I use them for. But I'm always open to some other cool camera that takes me in a different direction. The RX1 seems like the most likely candidate at the moment.
Regarding Mike's comments, the only thing I don't get is the idea that the Fuji AF is faster using the EVF (or rear screen) than the OVF. I simply have never experienced that AND it doesn't make any sense. The CAMERA is doing the same thing to achieve focus - the only thing that's different is how we're VIEWING it as it does its work. I can see thinking the focus is more reliable with the EVF because you don't have to deal with parallax and you can use a much smaller focus box, so you're less likely to focus on something in the background than you might be with the OVF, which is a less precise instrument. But in terms of the AF speed, it shouldn't make any difference at all. And I've never noticed that it does with either the X100 or the X-Pro...
-Ray
What happened to Oly 17mm or m9+CV 35mm?
X-Pro 2+23mm might be similar to RX1 dof and prices (used), but size wise combo will be bigger. From prototype, 23mm is at least have the size of Sony Zeiss 24mm 1.8. RX1 lens has the advantange of using a fixed lens which is embedded inside the body like Sigma dp's.
Also, x-pro2 might not be too far away esp when there is lots of deals going on with the x-system+lenses at B&H. Here is from fujirumors:
Fuji X PRO 1 marked as discontinued in some stores… | Fuji Rumors
X-Pro 2+23mm might be similar to RX1 dof and prices (used), but size wise combo will be bigger. From prototype, 23mm is at least have the size of Sony Zeiss 24mm 1.8. RX1 lens has the advantange of using a fixed lens which is embedded inside the body like Sigma dp's.
Also, x-pro2 might not be too far away esp when there is lots of deals going on with the x-system+lenses at B&H. Here is from fujirumors:
Fuji X PRO 1 marked as discontinued in some stores… | Fuji Rumors
Ray, I'm trying very hard to wait until the XPro2 and 23/1.4. But the X100S sure is looking good from all that I've seen and read. I exchanged a couple of messages with Mike Kobal about testing the X100S using CAF instead of SAF, and he too agreed that in all non-point and shoot Fuji X's, the CAF is faster, more accurate, and able to lock-on in darker and less contrasty situations. Similarly, AF was also better when using EVF over OVF. But according to Mike, no noticeable difference on the X100S. The RX1 sure looks good too! But it's a whole lot easier to resist an expensive camera that I can't afford right now!
Armanius
Bring Jack back!
- Location
- Houston, Texas
- Name
- Jack
That was my fault Ray. By the word "better" in reference to the AF in the EVF vs. OVF, I was referring to accuracy, and lock-on ability in low light and low contrast subjects.
Did you ever shoot the GXR with a M-module? That seems like something that might have suited your street photography style quite well.
Armanius
Bring Jack back!
- Location
- Houston, Texas
- Name
- Jack
LOL! I suffer from serious GAS my friend! Although I'm trying hard to control it. Fortunately (or unfortunately), I acquired another hobby recently that also involves lots of gear. So most of my focus has been on the new hobby, rather than camera gear!
Yes, the XPro2 will be bigger than the RX1. But I just love the hybrid viewfinder. When Sony makes a RX2 with a built-in VF, I'll be lining up to get one. Sony doesn't even have to make a hybrid one. I'd be happy with something similar to the X20's viewfinder built into the RX2. Although it's gotta have more than 80% coverage.
Yes, the XPro2 will be bigger than the RX1. But I just love the hybrid viewfinder. When Sony makes a RX2 with a built-in VF, I'll be lining up to get one. Sony doesn't even have to make a hybrid one. I'd be happy with something similar to the X20's viewfinder built into the RX2. Although it's gotta have more than 80% coverage.
What happened to Oly 17mm or m9+CV 35mm?
X-Pro 2+23mm might be similar to RX1 dof and prices (used), but size wise combo will be bigger. From prototype, 23mm is at least have the size of Sony Zeiss 24mm 1.8. RX1 lens has the advantange of using a fixed lens which is embedded inside the body like Sigma dp's.
Also, x-pro2 might not be too far away esp when there is lots of deals going on with the x-system+lenses at B&H. Here is from fujirumors:
Fuji X PRO 1 marked as discontinued in some stores… | Fuji Rumors
Amin
Hall of Famer
Maybe.
... It's not like I need anything new, so I'd say the RX1 is the most likely because it offers the only thing I don't have already - full frame IQ and an amazing f2 lens.
Ray, before you drop close to $3k on an RX1, you should borrow my Leica M8 and have B&H send you a Zeiss 25/2.8 to put on there. That combo used would run you a few hundred less than the Sony (Used M8s going in the $1600s these days, and used Zeiss 25s going in the $800s). Most people would be better off with the RX1, but I'm betting you'd have much more fun with the Leica.
- Location
- Milwaukee, WI USA
- Name
- Luke
Ray, before you drop close to $3k on an RX1, you should borrow my Leica M8 and have B&H send you a Zeiss 25/2.8 to put on there. That combo used would run you a few hundred less than the Sony (Used M8s going in the $1600s these days, and used Zeiss 25s going in the $800s). Most people would be better off with the RX1, but I'm betting you'd have much more fun with the Leica.
THIS is the kind of "noise" that I'm trying to block out of my head. Sure the high ISO of the Sony would be nice (and the ability to AF), but how I feel about the camera is much more important to me than the measurable output parameters
*briefly considers searching for used M8 and then slams laptop shut*
Ray Sachs
Legend
- Location
- Not too far from Philly
- Name
- you should be able to figure it out...
Ray, before you drop close to $3k on an RX1, you should borrow my Leica M8 and have B&H send you a Zeiss 25/2.8 to put on there. That combo used would run you a few hundred less than the Sony (Used M8s going in the $1600s these days, and used Zeiss 25s going in the $800s). Most people would be better off with the RX1, but I'm betting you'd have much more fun with the Leica.
That could only lead to trouble Amin. First off, I'm way too into high ISO shooting to want to spend a lot on a camera that just doesn't do that well. And if I was gonna try a Leica, I'd want the full frame sensor so I could shoot with a 28 as a 28 and a 35 as a 35. But the MOST important argument against this is that I can't see an m8 as anything other than a highly addictive gateway drug. If I liked it (yeah, like I might NOT?) it only leads down a road I absolutely cannot and will not go down. So why tempt myself and cause such spiritual angst and pain? I don't see the RX1 leading anywhere in particular - its sort of a singular one-off to really explore the depths of. Its a camera I enjoy shooting with a lot more than I expected to and if I still have that buzz after a month, I'll probably have it a good deal longer than that. I guess if Sony or Fuji develops a really good full frame mirrorless system with great lenses in the coming years, I might be vulnerable to that, but I might be with or without the RX1. But an M8 can only lead to one place and its a place I'm not prepared to go...
So, thanks for the fine suggestion. I can only assume your motives were pure... ('come on kid, THIS one is free, or at least affordable, you'll LIKE it, it's a GREAT buzz...'). But I don't see any upside to taking that first step...
-Ray
Ray Sachs
Legend
- Location
- Not too far from Philly
- Name
- you should be able to figure it out...
- Location
- Milwaukee, WI USA
- Name
- Luke
but Ray.....ALL the cool kids are doin' it.
Amin
Hall of Famer
Ray Sachs
Legend
- Location
- Not too far from Philly
- Name
- you should be able to figure it out...
I can hear my Dad now, back from the beyond, "Great, if they told you to jump off the house, would you do THAT too"!?!?!?
But Dad, this is different!
-Ray
Armanius
Bring Jack back!
- Location
- Houston, Texas
- Name
- Jack
Although this wasn't your "major" concern Ray, black and white high ISO on the M8 actually looks pretty good. The grain from the noise just makes it look like you are shooting high ISO black and white film. I could see a M8 + Zeiss 25/2.8 work quite well for you.
Seriously.
Not kidding.
Hikari
Veteran
- Location
- Maine, USA
But Leica Ms are so BIG!
Hikari
Veteran
- Location
- Maine, USA
Ray Sachs
Legend
- Location
- Not too far from Philly
- Name
- you should be able to figure it out...
That film crank would really throw me on a digital cam - I don't think I'd ever learn to adjust...
Armando, I don't doubt that I'd really like the M8. Seriously and not kidding both. BUT, part of the reason I'd like it a lot is I'm very comfortable and at home working with zone focus and Leicas are tailor made for that. And that would be cool. But I mostly use that type of technique for street photography and pretty much all of my current cameras are somewhere between really good and outstanding for that type of street shooting already. So I'm not really looking to fill THAT function again, since I sort of have that nailed in my current cameras. So, while I don't think I'd buy a nice camera that wasn't sort of capable of zone focus, that's far from my emphasis with whatever comes next. Which is part of what's drawing me to the RX1 - its strengths are very different than the strengths my existing cameras have. An m8, or even an X100s, would be sort of similar in some ways to what I already have, or at least I'd use them in somewhat similar ways. And that's just not what I'm looking for at the moment. Been there, done that, still very happily doing it when I get the chance, but I don't need another awesome camera to do it with. Particularly one that, if I like it as much as you suggest and I believe I probably would, that's a BAD thing for the reasons already noted. Its just not a direction I can afford to go without massive tradeoffs in other parts of my life. I'm pretty fortunate and I've been able to spend as much as a few thousand dollars per year on my photo addiction without causing any issues or other pain. But the really nice Leica gear is in a financial stratosphere that I suppose I could buy, but not without major sacrifice elsewhere, and that's when a hobby stops being a hobby. I'm just not gonna go there and, that being the case, don't see anything but downside to trying an m8. Nice as it would be, I'm quite sure.
Now, its possible I'll end up buying the Nikon Coolpix A specifically for street shooting, so some of my arguments above are obviously so much BS. But its gonna have to prove its worth over and above the GXR-28 to earn that spot and that's a very tall order, as I've mentioned. So, there's an outside chance I'll replace one camera with another for my street "arsenal", but to the extent I just flat out buy something new and different, its gonna have to be new and DIFFERENT, both in tradeoffs and in different use...
-Ray
