Samsung NX1 processing times.

Discussion in 'Samsung' started by Dave Cresswell, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. Dave Cresswell

    Dave Cresswell New Member

    Mar 24, 2015
    I have come across what is to me a few serious issues with my NX1 and was wondering if anyone else has had the same experiences and how they have resolved them (if at all).

    Last night I was experimenting with tripod mounted nightime photography using bulb mode and a triggertrap remote release.
    I took a series of images at 1m, 2m, 3m and 4m

    My first issue is the time that the camera took to process these images, this being the same as the exposure time - e.g. 4 minutes for the 4 minute exposure!
    (So if I wanted to take a series of timelapse nighttime photos, the processing time would render this - under most circumstances using triggertrap - impossible. Likewise hdr bracketing)

    The other issue I have is with the amount of noise generated at long time intervals.
    The attached photo was a 4 minute exposure at iso 800, f22. In addition the lense had a cp filter attached.
    (Gives rise to the question, what would the result have been from a 16 minute exposure but I dont really want to wait the 16 min processing time to find out :( ... would I just have been generating more noise anyway?

    I have attached the 4 minute image.
    I have sharpened it somewhat and done some other editing in Lightroom. It has also been pushed a couple of stops.
    The noise in the darker areas should be readily apparent at full resolution


    Many thanks for any suggestions or experiences under similar circumstances
  2. Chris2500dk

    Chris2500dk Top Veteran

    Dec 22, 2011
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    The processing time as you call it is a dark frame substraction. After the normal exposure the camera takes another shot of the same duration with the shutter closed. This provides a "dark frame" where any hot pixels will show up. The camera will then substract those from the image before writing the file.

    Not sure about the Samsung cameras, but in most cameras I've had you can turn it off if you want.
  3. Brian style

    Brian style Regular

    Jan 3, 2014
    Do you have long exposure noise reduction turned off or on?

    I've never done exposures at the length of time you're doing (about 1min for running water photos at most for me) but I'm curious as to why you would choose f22 and ISO 800. The NX1 does have noise at ISO800 but it seems to me you should be able to use ISO 100 for such long exposures to keep the noise down, not to mention diffraction at f22 as opposed to something like f5.6-f9 that would provide plenty of DOF? And you still had to push it a couple of stops in post? I don't see any reason for such extremes of Ap and ISO in the image posted. Just curious :)
  4. Luke

    Luke Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Nov 11, 2011
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    I think Chris has the correct explanation about why there is the long delay for processing.... it is the dark frame subtraction. You can turn it off if you like, but then you may see some hot pixels, but that should be easy enough to fix in post if the waiting is hard to take.

    Pushing an image 2 stops will also add a bunch of noise. You be better off doubling the exposure time and keeping your ISO down.

    And I assume you are using f22 to get the star shape on the light source? If you aren't, then open up the aperture. If you are, consider if it's really worth it. If you really want the sunstars, you could shoot two different shots and combine them in post.
  5. Dave Cresswell

    Dave Cresswell New Member

    Mar 24, 2015
    @All. Thanks guys. Must admit, its the first time I've heard of dark subtraction. The camera just gives the message 'Processing image' and no other indication of what is happening.

    @Brian@Brian, I had high iso noise reduction set on and to normal. Would turning this off remove the dark frame subtraction? (and if not, where on the menu would I find it)?

    @Luke@Luke, only reason for F22 other than DOF was getting the sharpest image when not able to see anything much through viewfinder! May have to do some more experimenting to see what works best with this camera under low light conditions. Being able to turn off dark subtraction would definitely help with this though
  6. Luke

    Luke Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Nov 11, 2011
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    most lenses are sharpest around f5.8 - f8. After that, diffraction sets in. There is a well written article here with illustrations to either teach you some new concepts or to help cement them in place regarding depth of field and sharpness and the joys of understanding and using hyperfocal distance. http://digital-photography-school.c...-hyperfocal-distances-and-aperture-selection/

    Feel free to ask for more help if needed. But I think that article will take you where you need to go.
  7. john m flores

    john m flores All-Pro

    Aug 13, 2012
    Long exposure night time images take some time to master, as the darkness brings with it a whole new set of challenges that need to be solved, i.e., focusing, camera stability, exposure, etc. I don't do it regularly, but when I do, I often take a dozen or more long-exposure shots just to get one decent one.

    In other words, patience. Don't dismiss the camera so quickly. Get some quick learning done with 30 second exposures, try using a flashlight to help set focus, try separating AF from the shutter button if possible, make sure your tripod is rock solid, etc. If after that the camera still isn't performing, feel free to try another brand, comforted by the fact that all that you just learned transfers to whatever camera you use.

    Good luck!
  8. Dave Cresswell

    Dave Cresswell New Member

    Mar 24, 2015
    Thanks for the link Luke. Great article. Just found and downloaded android app Hyperfocal pro so that should help as well
  9. Dave Cresswell

    Dave Cresswell New Member

    Mar 24, 2015
    Thanks John.
    I hadn't intended to sound negative about the camera, there's a lot to like about it and I appreciate there's always going to be a learning curve. It has been a frustrating experience in some ways though!

    I've always had Canon cameras before this, but my last, an EOS 450 was getting rather long in the tooth and I would have needed new lenses whatever camera I went for, so decided to make the leap based on reviews the NX1 had received.
    The NX1 has a lot of potential and I will be sticking with it. (Having just made this investment, I cant afford to do otherwise now anyway :)

    I suspect that this line of cameras just needs time to mature and that the NX1 was released a little bit prematurely. I have seen other opinions that point to the firmware (Now on its 3rd iteration) being a bit rough around the edges on first release so hopefully things will continue to improve there.

    Technically its a very capable camera but I think in some areas information Samsung provides is a bit sparse and it has often left me scratching my head figuring out how to get various functions working.
    (I still havent found anything on how to switch off dark subtraction and this is definitely something I want to experiment with and see what effect it has)

    I also wish they'd provide some useful lightroom presets in the same way most other camera manufacturers do.
    As Samsung includes a copy of Lightroom 5 with the camera, I'm surprised they haven't done that. Being new to Lightroom, this has been another steep learning curve although one thats been very satisfying to master and is now producing good results

    I have just upgraded the firmware to the latest release, which now allows an android device to now be linked by Bluetooth rather than WiFi. (I had spent fruitless hours trying to get camera manager to work over Wifi, but so far Bluetooth seems to work perfectly with near instananious recognition and pairing).

    Camera manger allows AF point to be set from the remote android device with live view (although only VGA resolution), so I will be experimenting with this.

    I had found it quite frustating not having a reliable wireless remote release method (hence resorting to triggertrap) from the get go but Samsung seems to have this sorted now.
    Hopefully Samsung will incorporate all the nice features that Triggertrap has into Camera manager in a future release. Heck, if it's open source software, I might have a go myself :)

    I also had a problem previously with WiFi, as I use my phone for tethered WiFi and Samsung camera manager doesn't play nicely with this.
    For me .. and I suspect for most others, Bluetooth pairing, now it's available for the NX1 and that there's a new android version of camera manager that supports this (only for the NX1), is the way to go.

    Apologies for the length of this reply but hopefully other NX1 users will find something useful in it.