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Panasonic LX100II

Discussion in 'News and Rumors' started by davidzvi, Aug 15, 2018.

  1. davidzvi

    davidzvi Veteran

    439
    Apr 18, 2014
    David
    Anyone looking forward to the vII? As many may know I'm REALLY not a fan of power zooms. But still I have owned the vI twice and an LX10. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come out with next week.

    Currently I have an E-M1 mkII, a GX85, and an X70. At this point the GX85 gets some use around the house with the P12-32mm and P14mm. So not much that an LX100 vII couldn't replace in (probably) a smaller package. I have considered just replacing the GX85 with the current LX100, but I really like a tilting / touch LCD. Maybe my dream will come true and Panasonic will use something like the Fuji X30 did or a fast version of the P12-32 collapsible lens.
     
  2. MoonMind

    MoonMind All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Switzerland
    Matt
    I have kept the LX100 around, but to be honest, it has been superceded by the G1X III for me - the results from the LX100 are nice, but simply can't keep up with those from the APS-C sensor in the Canon. However, as a package, the LX100 still impresses, and the images judged on their own merits are really solid. But I have to fully agree about the power zoom - and that's because the one in the LX100 really *lacks* power, seriously. It's much too slow - in a way, the whole camera is, but the zoom is the most obviously slow component, ruining deploy time. The G1X III is noticeably faster - but more to the point, Panasonic themselves also know how to do this because they got it right with the FZ1000! *If* they come out with a power zoom (they will), they should model it after the one in the FZ1000, technically - quick to deploy, quick to adjust; I also wouldn't say no to the EVF from the FZ1000 - much more comfortable and accurate (in fact, as EVFs go, I like this one even over the still bigger one in the Sony A7 II because it presents a more faithful preview of the image).

    However, I'm not expecting a lot of decisive changes. I think we'll see even more features, but the same lens and gestalt, though of course, a new sensor, probably the 20MP unit from the GX9. I'd be really surprised if we saw a major upgrade - but Panasonic *has* been innovating recently (the G9 is a very convincing case in point), so maybe I'm too pessimistic. After all, Canon went all in with the GX1 III, a camera that I love to bits - no bigger than the LX100, but with a performance that gets close to DSLR territory; people scoff about the lens, but honestly, it beats any kit zoom I've compared to it (the 12-32mm among them - even though it's one of the best!), and in spite of the solid performance of the LX100's lens, it beats that one by some margin (except of course for light gathering capabilities, but the sensor compensates for that - easily!). It's telling that during only a few months' ownership, I've clocked up two thirds of the number of shots I've ever taken with the LX100 ...

    So, I won't hold my breath over this - but I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised even if I most definitely am not in the market for this type of camera at the moment. But it's telling that I have kept the LX100 around - it's still one of the most convincing compacts I have handled. And the images coming from it are pleasing, to say the list. I think it's main failure (and I would agree that the power zoom plays a major part in this) is that it looks like a rangefinder-style street camera, but doesn't really qualify. The GX80 with either the 12-32mm or a small prime fills that role admiringly while not being a lot bigger. It's a speed thing.

    M.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. marlof

    marlof Trying to focus Subscribing Member

    Dec 25, 2010
    The Netherlands
    Marlof
    I essentially replaced my LX100 (which had to go in surgery three times: once for dust issues, once for some electric failure which drained the battery by itself, once for a broken zoom mechanism) with the GX9 with 20 1.7. Not that much bigger, but a camera I prefer to use. My main issues with the LX100 - next to the unreliability of my copy - were the sensor (good for a compact, but beaten even by newer m43 sensors) and the power zoom, also that it didn’t stop extending if it was blocked (as when accidentally turning the camera on inside a jacket) and broke the mechanism as a result. I did like the fast lens, the manual controls, and the fact it had an EVF without a faux prism. I really wanted to like the LX100, but its flaws made me stop using it. I am curious to see what improvements version II will bring.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. davidzvi

    davidzvi Veteran

    439
    Apr 18, 2014
    David
    @MoonMind@MoonMind nice to know I'm not alone with my thoughts on the LX100 lens. I haven't really looked at the GX1 mIII, maybe it's the old Nikon shooter in me.

    I'm not really in the market to replace my GX85 or X70. But they do server a very similar function in my current collection. There is something about the form and controls of the LX100 I really like. The direct controls are a big part of what I REALLY liked about the LX100 and my X70. Another thing I liked about the LX100 was the grip. Both my GX85 and X70 really need the grip to feel "right" in my hand, the LX100 didn't. With the latest trends (grips on the GX85, GX9, LX10, ZS100, and ZS200) I'm guessing I won't be pleasantly surprised by the LX100 II's grip, time will tell. I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised and braced for disappointment.
     
  5. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Aug 13, 2011
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    Having just acquired an LX100 I won't be upgrading anytime soon. I am expecting my next significant purchase to be the Ricoh GR replacement.

    That said, I'm liking the LX100. I wouldn't want it any smaller - it's about at the limit for me. I would love the zoom to be manual, but that's not going to happen. All I would want to see otherwise would be a bigger sensor, but keeping the low light performance. Tilty touchy screens leave me cold.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. davidzvi

    davidzvi Veteran

    439
    Apr 18, 2014
    David
    Interested to see Ricoh does as well.

    I went from an X70 to a GM5 to an LX10 and back to the X70.
    • To GM5 to consolidate into one system, big mistake even though this was my 2nd (3rd?) GM5 so I knew what I was getting.
    • To LX10 because I REALLY missed the tilting LCD. I know you're not a fan of the tilting touch screen. But a lot of things I shoot are at angles that make the tilt screen an BIG plus.
    • Back to the X70 mainly because the speed of the power zoom; it was missing a few options that even the older GM5 had (I missed the differences when I was researching it); and I also REALLY missed the handling. Also the LX10 felt smaller than the GM5. Yes I know the LX10 and GM5 are very close in size, but with the Franiec grip and rear dial it just handled better.
    So:
    1. A reasonable sensor update
    2. Similar controls to the current
    3. Tilt and touch screen
    4. Improved lens function
    Are on my wish list.
     
  7. MoonMind

    MoonMind All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Switzerland
    Matt
    @Lightmancer@Lightmancer Yes, the next GR (though not much more than a myth at the moment) could be quite an eye-opener - in short, a Leica Q competitor for a third of the price. But that's nothing more than a rumor. Anyhow, the GR is - at least for me - a totally different class of camera; I own the original GR APS-C, and it's still the smallest high-performance camera because of its amazing lens and solid sensor; the G1X III's sensor is better, but not by as much of a margin as one would expect, given the age of the GR. But of course, the GR's lens is top-notch, hard to beat (though some say the X70 can keep up, as could the Coolpix A - and I believe that, though only just).

    @davidzvi@davidzvi I am a classic rangefinder nut - because they provide an immersive, immediate shooting experience that no other type of camera can provide. But that's *precisely* why I don't care for the direct controls of the LX100: If it was possible to deploy the camera fluidly, they'd make sense, but as it is, you always have to wait till you can work with it. Their only true merit is that you can preset the camera completely - but in all honesty, you can do the same thing with just about any camera today. So, my priority list would be: Make this thing fast - along the lines for the very satisfying GX80, or even better. Give it either complete direct controls (including the zoom!) or a straightforward double-dial setup, but first and foremost, make it fly. I personally don't need a tilt or touch screen, but I do love it if I can actually fold away a swivel screen, so if movements are introduced, I'd like the complete set, please. As for the sensor: They'll use a modern one - probably the GX9's, so we'll probably see 15MP - that's no big deal, and no worthwhile enhancement. What I'd really love to see is a truely revamped camera that uses the whole sensor - which would also mean a new lens, maybe even with a mechanical zoom (or a fast prime - one can dream), maybe a tad slower in terms of maximum aperture (no harm in that - it's a :mu43: class sensor, so if someone's into super-thin DoF, they should look elsewhere; I prefer optical performance over speed any day - compare the wonderful 12-32mm!).

    Panasonic can do it - the question is, do they get the angles right on this one. And as this discussion shows, they've got one hell of a job to do ...

    M.
     
  8. davidzvi

    davidzvi Veteran

    439
    Apr 18, 2014
    David
    The X70 is not as sharp as the GR or Nikon A in general, but I believe it may be sharper in the same range as it is sharper than the lens on the X100 series. That being wide open / close up in the center. And for me I can live with the little softer in general (it's sharp enough) for the close up details and Fuji color. As to the Nikon A, I read somewhere there was speculation they might have been the same lens optics but I could be mistaken.

    I'd take a GX9 washed and dried on high so it shrinks just a bit down to the size of the LX100 with a fixed 28mm eq f/2.5 (the Pan 14mm f/2.5 is very nice) or the manual 12-32mm. But if it's like the 12-32 I'd prefer it top out at f/4 and not f/5.6, The f/1.4-2.8s are nice but not a requirement, in my OP I probably should have said faster version of the 12-32 and "fast". As for the sensor cropping? I'm OK with the multi aspect configuration as long as it leads to a smaller package.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  9. MoonMind

    MoonMind All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Switzerland
    Matt
    I'm not that keen on ultimate sharpness either, but what I absolutely love about the GR's lens is the overall rendering, the depth of the images, the definition. The X70 is probably fine as far as this goes - Fuji know how to build lenses that render pleasing images. That said, the GR's lens *is* sharp - the only "better" 28mm (or equivalent) lens I own is a Leica Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 (pre-ASPH) - and then only just; I'd say the GR is on par when it comes to the overall results, which is amazing, come to think of it (for the used price of the Elmarit-M, you could scoop up three GR IIs or five used GRs).
    Fully with you on that (size and all) - in fact, the idea of a 28mm (or, for my poor soul, a 35mm) equivalent with f/2 or f/2.5|2.8 would hold enormous appeal for me. But I also like your idea of a slightly boosted version of the 12-32mm - very much so; in fact, if they made it f/2-f/4, manual zoom, and with superb wide-open performance (like the 12-32mm from f/4 onwards), I'd be really intrigued. Considering the target market a bit more realistically, I'd say a fixed f/2.8 would be a nice idea as well - such a lens could be slightly smaller than the present lens while being a bit more consistent in terms of sharpness; actually, it's how I shoot the LX100's lens most of the time (stopped down to f/2.8) to counter certain aberrations at the wide end.
    I hardly ever use that feature - so that's probably the reason why I'd trade that kind of versatility for real estate. Considering what Canon has been able to do with the G1X III, the size penalty should be minimal, if at all needed - think of the GM5, with the 12-32mm, it was even smaller than the LX100! I'm not into more resolution per se, but I'd like to have more area for photon catching. Sometimes, I wish we'd get a new 12MP :mu43: sensor with the latest tech; I'd trade a bit of resolution for cleaner low-light images and better dynamic range. Specifically, a boost in shadow recoverability would be very welcome, comparatively speaking (it's where the APS-C sensors I also use really outshine the :mu43: ones). It would allow for better highlight protection as well ... In short, the first :mu43: sensor with BSI technology would certainly kindle my interest ...

    M.

    P.S. Forgot something: I'd really like to see a built-in ND filter - the GR has one, and the G1X III as well. Very handy, certainly enhances flexibility.
     
  10. MoonMind

    MoonMind All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Switzerland
    Matt
    Just saw the post on MU43.com about the leaked images. I think we can stop dreaming. Doesn't look too good in my view - this is the same camera with minimal changes in tech (and maybe one major one, incorporating the sensor from the GX9). Not of interest for me at all.

    M.
     
  11. drd1135

    drd1135 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    Lexington, Virginia
    Steve
    It looks exactly the same as version 1 (I called up the B&H page for comparison) with the except of a few words like "filter" instead of "fn1". I almost wonder if that's a real leaked image.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. davidzvi

    davidzvi Veteran

    439
    Apr 18, 2014
    David
    Panasonic has the tiny P14mm f/2.5, the nice PL15mm f/1.7, and the wonderful (but slow AF) P20 f/1.7 that would be just fine fixed.
    Maybe the improved the function of the lens and sealed the body? Otherwise what's the latest on the GR III or X70s?
     
  13. MoonMind

    MoonMind All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Switzerland
    Matt
    @davidzvi@davidzvi @drd1135@drd1135 It's possible that there's more to it than it seems - or that the images are fake. I won't hold my breath, though - because similarily insignificant "upgrades" have happened frequently in the past, and Panasonic has had its share of them (the way the GF series evolved, to name just one - GF1 > GF2 > GF3 ... The next solid camera in the range was the GF6 (a faster GF5), but the GF7 was a toy again ... and now we have the GX850, a GF/GM hybrid ...). Let's see what's what next Thursday. A sealed LX100 II would be a nice touch, that's true - but the camera would have to offer a lot more in terms of improvements to really spark my interest.

    btw. The 20mm was my first :mu43: lens (except for the kit zoom I virtually never used); nowadays, it's part of my "nostalgia" setup: GF1 and 20mm - the original package. Still a joy to shoot, and of course, the lens is the soul and center of the whole bundle (though the GF1 has its merits; the GX series picked up on most of them later ...). Put those optics (or decendents thereof) in a fixed lens compact, and you have an instant win ...

    M.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. drd1135

    drd1135 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    Lexington, Virginia
    Steve
    I should have put a smilie. :flowers_2: A sensor upgrade wouldn’t show. Since the lens looks the same size it’s probably shooting cropped mu43.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. davidzvi

    davidzvi Veteran

    439
    Apr 18, 2014
    David
    It's true that there could be more that the pictures don't show, but I'm breathing regularly.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
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