Critique Wanted Color or B & W

@BB I definitely like the b&w better. There's more detail in the bricks, particularly in the background.

@Peter. In the first I like the b&w better partly because I like the crop better. In the second I prefer the colour because I think the contrast of colours between rocks and sky is what makes it work.


Kathy, thank you very much. I think that I'm for the black and white-ish one, too. I kind of like the color version because of the blues... It's very hard sometimes to be able to distance oneself from one's own pictures. Your feedback and other folks are much appreciated.
 
Here are a couple of shots, one colour under a mix of natural and artificial lighting (mostly) and the black and white version of the same.

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Coogee Pool 1 by peterb666, on Flickr

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Coogee Pool 1 bw by peterb666, on Flickr

The artificial lighting really mucks up the white balance and creates shadows with excessive green and purple. Compensating for the lighting makes the blues too deep so it becomes a compromise. Such are the virtues (or otherwise) of mixed lighting.

I normally do a black and white version under these circumstances and usually prefer it to the colour version however the colour one is sometimes 'interesting'.
 
I'd say the color version is more than interesting, Peter - I really like it and prefer it. Although the color may not b real - who cares? To me it is an otherworldly, dreamscape...the details that show up more in the color version make this image even more intense from my point of view. The mistiness of the ocean water caught in its flow, the yellow of the building and that ominous deep sapphire sky with the lavender sunrise...and rain... For this one, my vote is firmly for your color version - it's beautiful and intensely mysterious!
 
BBW regarding post #52, the way you have processed these I probably prefer the B&W, but processed differently I would prefer colour. For the colour version I would tone down the contrast dramatically - while this works well for the B&W I think it's too much for colour.

While B&W could be enhanced to bring out the structure and texture of the brickwork (as Nic suggests) in colour I would tone these down so they primarily function to draw you in to the main subject of the picture - hubby and daughter. You could desaturate a little and turn down the clarity/structure/mid-tone contrast. I would also lighten the very dark areas on their clothing, especially on your daughter, and darken - a little - the brickwork and the flag behind them. Right now I think it is too dominant. Finally, I think I would experiment with the blues - pay around with the saturation and luminance.

Peter on your first image in post #53 I'm leaning towards the B&W but I can't tell you why. I think it had to do with the unfamiliarity of the orange and blue theme of the landscape/seascape. On the second one, I'm with the others on the colour version. I don;t think there's enough tonal variety in the B&W version to make it work as well.

On the image in #62 I'm with BB on preferring the colour version. The colour combinations of the heavy inky blue sky and background sea, the greenish hue of the foreground water and the reddish/pink hue of the water on the left are nicely demarcated by the structure of the seawalls. It's a nice effect and I think the overall slightly unnatural look works best in colour.
 
Thanks for your feedback, olli - I did desaturate believe it or not. I'm not sure that I can activate all your suggestions, but I do appreciate them none the less. It is so interesting to me to see how each of us relates to various photographs, be they color or not, in such different ways. Vive la difference!:flowers_2:
 
Regaring desaturation - did yo do a general desaturation of reds/oranges across the whole image? I did notice that you daughter was looking a bit pale:)

What I had in mind specifically is the area on the right hand side closest to the camera which is quite dominant.
 
olli, I did so many things that I probably can't remember. Yes, I know she looks a bit pale. Part of my problems were that it was a very slow shutter speed for the scene and it was a bit "noisy"... I don't know how to desaturate specific places within a photograph. I am thinking that might be the "brushes" in Lightroom? If so, this is an area where I am decidedly clueless. If it's not brushes, then I remain just as clueless, too. I will add that I was not going for a realistic look but I am interested in the specific method of desaturating, if there is one.:D
 
I did desaturate believe it or not.

I believe you. But you pushed the contrast so extremely, that the colors look more saturated than the saturation settings in Lightroom (or any other program) may suggest.

There is an IMHO unfortunate general tendency to push contrast and saturation by far too much. There are pictures which need more contrast, but there are many photographs which don't and many which need a decrease of contrast. Always doing the same means working by formula and art does not follow any formulas.

Since you asked mainly for the technical part, I restrict myself to that. It seems that the situation of your photograph (#52) was already very contrasty. I think that you should not push the contrast so far, but maybe just a little. It is fine to add clarity. Since there are a lot of blacks and dark parts which should not be that dark (the clothes of your daughter, the face of your husband) I would add what Lightroom calls "Fill Lights". There is a trick: raise fill lights and add a little black. Then the face of your husband will be fine and the picture would still have enough blacks. I think that both versions would work better for me, if you did not push the contrast so far. I hope that helps.
 
Right, thank you Christian! I do know about the fill lights and adding black..and may well revisit the color one. I see what both you and olli are saying. I'm not sure that I personally agree, though this is when we kind of cross into the matter of aesthetics which is, after all, very personal. I know that neither the black and white nor the color are realistic images. I may have gone more contrasty for two reasons - both because my initial exposure was not ideal and because I began to see them "in a different light"...more dream like than real. However, none of this negates your reactions and suggestions. I appreciate reading what everyone says because it helps me learn and reevaluate my own artistic, as well as technical, endeavors. (y) The great thing is that I can go back in and try a few changes to see what I think - that's one of the best parts of a program such as Lightroom.;)
 
You really need to learn how to use the adjustment brush - it's one of the most powerful tools in LR. Here's a quick rundown.

Click on the brush icon an you will see when you hover over the image a circle with another circle around it. To apply it just click and paint. Before you do so hit the 'o' key - that's the letter 'o', not the number '0'. This will show you the precise area you are applying the brush to with a red overlay. (You can zoom in as close as you want when applying the brush so you can paint areas in very precisely).

The size slider changes the size of the brush, the feather slider changes the feather and is indicated by the relative size of the two circles. The flow slider determines how much of each adjustment is applied with each sweep of the brush - for example, if you have the exposure set to -1 setting flow to 100 means that the full -1 will be applied with one stroke while reducing the flow means that you can gradually build up the effect with multiple sweeps. The density slider controls the maximum opacity you can achieve with the brush. The auto mask option helps you to isolate specific bits of the image - if you have a line of contrast the brush will paint in the effect in the part that has the centre of the brush on it but will not apply the effect to a contrasting area even if it is within the circle of the brush. (It is more difficult to explain than to use but it is easy to see when you play with it.) You can have the A and B brushes with different set ups and the erase brush is there for when you want to remove something you have previously applied.

Once you have applied the brush hit 'o' again to remove the overlay and you can start adjusting the effect sliders to see the localised effects.

It's easier to watch than to read so here's an Adobe approved video that shows how it works.
 
Lightroom offers the possibility to make virtual copies, such that it is possible to preserve your initial developed version. Sometimes one has to play around with a photograph in order to see what's best. Both of your versions are very tough and I do not associate that with "more dream like than real". I just want to understand.
 
For me, Christian, it's the color one because the delicate nature of the flowers shows up better and the subtle shades of color look so beautiful together. To my eyes, the beauty even with decay is much clearer in color and hits home with me. Lovely image.
 
Colour. Because it more clearly shows the process of transition towards decay. Perhaps I would desaturate the greens a little to reduce the distraction of the leaves in the background.
 
I like the B&W. The color seems to show the loss of life as it's slipping away. I am drawn to the living parts as it interferes with the emotional impact.
The B&W shows the finality of death with no illusion or interference.
 
X100. LR3 only

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Oops, I've missed a couple here!

Malcolm, for your two of the passage way, although I do really like the greens and the detail of the tree's leaves in your color version, I believe the lighting as a whole makes your B&W version much more powerful - especially in regards to the dramatic sky and that wonderful highlighted area of the bare treetop and the wall on the upper right - so B&W is it for me for theses two.:th_salute:

Heather, both are very pretty but it's hands down for your color version for me - without a doubt! The delicate tones of emphasize the ephemeral qualities of these blades of grass - or wheat - and their beauty really does shine through so well in color. The range of blues in the background, work beautifully as the backdrop and allow the light to reflect more in color, in my opinion. I think that the color image has much more depth and feeling and show's life and light! :flowers_2: That's my view, anyway.

What do you both think? Which did you prefer or lean to and why?

P.S. I agree with Bart - a very good quote, Heather.
 
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